Potential difficulties for Ms Butera, Ms Zanatta and Mr Atkin from CBUS
Monday, 27 October 2014
This is a link to the CBUS News magazine published in September, 2011 - and again we are indebted to Seeker of Truth for much of this post.
A newly appointed superannuation co-ordinator for North Queensland, Mr Andrew Clark appears in this issue of CBUS News.
That article records Andrew Clark joined CBUS on 4 September, 2011.
Last Thursday, 23 October 2014 Ms Butera gave evidence to the Royal Commission about a phone conversation she had with Ms Zanatta on 26 July, 2013.
This transcript is from:
Page 961 - Mr Stoljar to Ms Butera
Q. Later on that day Ms Zanatta rang you again, on the Friday?
A. She did.
Q. And you had a conversation of about four or five minutes?
A. True.
Q. She told you she was going to Sydney?
A. It had nothing to do with going to Sydney.
Q. What do you say that conversation was about?
A. That was one of the things I actually spoke to her about because I could not recall, and she reminded me that that phone call was in relation to a recently appointed coordinator in Far North Queensland, a gentleman by the name of Andrew Clark, who had come from the CFMEU in Queensland. We had arranged a very intense induction program for him in Melbourne. It coincided - now, I can't be absolutely sure about this, but it coincided with a meeting in Queensland and I think Andrew was on the committee of management. It might not be the committee of management, but it was some committee that was meeting at the same time.”
At pages 964 and 965 Ms Butera states that she told Ms Zanatta to talk to David Atkin about Mr Clark’s attendance because she has to rush off to a Union dinner.
Q. You said that the conversation on the Friday afternoon was in respect of or about a Mr Andrew Clark?
Q. What precisely was the issue?
A. The issue - and I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear. I'll try and be a bit clearer. Andrew Clark was a newly appointed coordinator in Far North Queensland for Cbus. He was previously a CFMEU organiser but showed a lot of potential in terms of his understanding of the products and services of our fund. We needed somebody to actually look after that area for us and he was employed. It was not long after that that there was - and I think it's a branch committee of management but I can't be absolutely sure. It was a very important one. Andrew really wanted to attend, but it coincided with a week of intensive induction that we had organised in Melbourne for him. So there was a conflict. Did he go to the committee of management for the CFMEU or does he come to do the induction in Melbourne? That's what Lisa spoke to me about.
Q. And what was the outcome?
A. If you just give me one more second, this will make sense.
Q. Yes.
A. So I was actually keen to get away that night because I was - I needed to go home, freshen up, and go to a function as a Cbus representative for the reasons that I've already said. If you want me to say it again, I will. It was the --
THE COMMISSIONER: Q, An AWU State Secretary dinner for his retirement.
A. Thank you. And he had been previously, for a number of years, a director of Cbus, so --
MR STOLJAR: Q. I was really just more concerned about what was the outcome of the conflict to which you made reference about Mr Clark?
A. My recommendation was that he come to Melbourne to take part in the induction, but I said to Lisa, "Before you actually get back to the CFMEU, talk to David. I'm not going to have time to do it, so talk to our CEO.
David Atkin, the CBUS CEO also gave evidence about his conversation with Ms Zanatta of the same day, 26 July, 2013 - the following exchange is from his evidence on 23 October, 2014:
Q. What about between getting the legal letters, knowing that something had gone wrong, and the conversation with Mr Parker on 18 July?
A. No, I don't believe I spoke to Lisa in that period about Lis-Con.
Q. Well, you say "about Lis-Con", because on the last occasion you remembered a telephone conversation you'd had with Ms Zanatta?
A. I remember that conversation.
Q. And you remember the content of that conversation?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Ms Heath asked you a bit about that today?
A. Yes. I have a memory about that because I remember where I was situated and I remember it was a Friday evening and I remember what the conversation was about.
Q. You said you were dropping your daughter off at school?
A. Yes, Greek school.
Q. At Greek school?
A. Yes, so it was about 4, 4.30, something like that.
Q. This was a conversation about an induction program, you said on the last occasion?
A. That's right.
Q. How long was the conversation?
A. Five minutes.
Q. It was just a routine matter, was it? Who was the new coordinator, by the way?
A. Our North Queensland coordinator.
Q. Who is that?
A. Andrew.
Q. Andrew who?
A. The name escapes me. Apologies.
Q. Ms Zanatta rang you late in the afternoon, did she, on a Friday just to talk about that?
A. That's right.
Q. Why wouldn't she have rung Ms Noye?
A. The reason for the call was to let me know that the union was requesting Andrew attend a union event and we had already prearranged an induction program for Andrew to come down to Melbourne and that if I was to get a call from the union, to explain that it was not possible for us to change Andrew's plans, given that we had already put in place the arrangements.
Q. Which union?
A. The CFMEU, remembering that he was in transition from working at the CFMEU to - well, working in the industry, and I think being a CFMEU delegate, to working for us and so --
There's more - Page 900-901.
The problem for Ms Zanatta, Ms Butera and Mr Atkin is that Mr Clark joined on 4 September 2011 as the CBUS News magazine above shows.
There's also this from the CBUS News February 2012 issue showing Mr Clark as fully fledged and active:
This cached page of the CBUS Co-ordinators webpage is from 11 February 2012 - apparently after Mr Clark's induction.
This from the Internet Archive cached in October 2012 and this in February 2012, this from Zoominfo in February 2012 and plenty more.
Mr Atkin, the CEO of CBUS says that the phone records are accurate, he did have a conversation with Ms Zanatta on that Friday afternoon late in July 2013 - but it wasn't about LisCon, it was about a co-ordinator called Andrew and:
he was in transition from working at the CFMEU to - well, working in the industry, and I think being a CFMEU delegate, to working for us and so....
And Ms Butera says the phone records are accurate, she did have a conversation with Ms Zanatta that day, but it wasn't about LisCon, it was about this guy:
Andrew Clark was a newly appointed coordinator in Far North Queensland for Cbus. He was previously a CFMEU organiser but showed a lot of potential in terms of his understanding of the products and services of our fund.
Someone didn't check the details - CBUS's own publications tell us Mr Clark joined CBUS on 4 September 2011. Just on 2 years had elapsed by Friday, 26 July 2013 when Ms Zanatta organised the courier, the trip to Sydney and the other details like approvals.
She spoke to Ms Butera and the CEO Mr Atkin that day. Maybe some time soon they'll tell us what they really discussed.