Malcolm Turnbull misunderstands Indonesia and its relationship with Islam.
That's dangerous because Turnbull seems to believe the unique situation in Indonesia is proof that we'll have no problems getting along with a growing Muslim influence in our polity.
PM Turnbull tells Indonesia's President Widodo that he quotes him all the time about democracy and Islam @SBSNewspic.twitter.com/rViElZwwJu
"You are an absolute beacon in the way that you demonstrate again and again that democracy moderation, tolerance and Islam are thoroughly compatible," Mr Turnbull added.
Oh really? This from the Jakarta Post.
Members of the Nahdlatul Ulama join a mass prayer in Jombang, East Java in a 2015 file photo. (Kompas/Alif Ichwan)
President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo has toned down earlier statements about the separation of religion and politics.
Jokowi, ahead of a recent sectarian rally by conservative Muslim groups against Jakarta Governor Basuki “Ahok” Tjahaja Purnama, had warned the groups not to mix religion with politics.
While reaping criticism from Islamist political parties, his statements did not stop the rally on March 31, in which police detained five protesters, including Muslim People’s Forum (FUI) leader Muhammad Al-Khaththath.
In another move to balance out his firm stance against Muslim radicals participating in sectarian rallies, President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo has toned down earlier statements about the separation of religion and politics.
ENDS
Indonesia's democracy, moderation and toleration occur in spite of traditional Islam, not because of it.
Two principal factors drive Indonesia's relative religious harmony and tolerance - Pancasila and the government's rule with an iron fist.
Pancasila is the dominant political force in Indonesia - much greater (historically and politically) than Islam. And in living up to the Pancasila principles, the country's military has been ruthless in suppressing any hint of insurrection, including Islamic.
For most of the Republic of Indonesia's post-independence life it's been a dictatorship with the ruler kept in power through force.
The country was occupied by the Japanese during World War Two. Its first President, Soekarno united the nation in the aftermath of Japanese occupation and declared independence from the former colonial power the Dutch.
In 1945 Sukarno promulgated Pancasila (or 5 principles/columns) as the philosophical foundation of the Indonesian state
Kebangsaan Indonesia (Indonesian Nationality), an emphasis on nationalism
Internasionalisme (Internationalism), an emphasis on justice and humanity
Musyawarah Mufakat (Deliberative Consensus), an emphasis on Representative democracy which holds no ethnic dominance but an equal vote for each member of the council
Kesejahteraan Sosial (Social Welfare), influenced by the idea of the welfare state, an emphasis on populist Socialism
KeTuhanan yang Maha Esa, an emphasis on monotheism and religiosity
The fifth sila concerning religiosity was promoted to become the first sila, however Muslim wishes for a reference to the Sharia and the use of the word Allah were unsuccessful - Pancasila uses the Indonesian word for god "tuhan".
All Indonesians can quote Pancasila. It outranks any Islamic rulings - and is the reason for the religious harmony Indonesia usually enjoys.
To enforce harmony and stability, Indonesian Police/military ruthlessly quell militant groups, particularly anything that looks like a threat to the government.
Indonesia's police are the polar opposite to latter day Australian "police services".
Last year Indonesian police foiled 14 terror attacks and made more than 150 terror related arrests.
Australians would not cop the policing that's normal in Indonesia - shoot first and ask questions later. Turnbull's commentary about Islam and democracy is fantasy land.
Now to get a sense of the moderation and democracy, here are a few grabs from the press for the four months since 20 December 2016.
Indonesian Police Shoot 3 Terrorist Suspects Dead in a Raid Outside Jakarta
Members of Indonesia’s counterterrorism squad have shot dead three suspected terrorists and arrested one in South Tangerang, on the outskirts of Jakarta.
The three, who were armed with bombs, were killed during a raid in a rented house, Jakarta police chief Mochamad Iriawan told local media on Wednesday morning, shortly after the shootout. Police also found “active bombs” on the scene.
The suspected terrorists in Tangerang were believed to have links with 14 alleged jihadists who have been arrested in the past 10 days, including a female suicide bomber and three female accomplices; they were accused of plotting to bomb the presidential palace. The police named Bahrun Naim, an Indonesian ISIS jihadist in the Middle East, as a mastermind behind the plan to attack the palace, as well as other terrorist plots, including an attack that killed eight in Jakarta in January.
Two other terrorist suspects werearrested in two separate provinces in Sumatra on Wednesday, both of them are believed to have links with Bahrun.
Indonesian police kill two militants in raid on house in Java
Updated
Indonesian police have killed two suspected Islamist militants in a house in West Java, a police spokesman said, marking the latest in a series of raids aimed at preventing planned attacks in the Muslim-majority nation.
Two men had been arrested in Cibinong, in West Java, and led police to a house at the Jatiluhur dam, national police spokesman Awi Setiyono said.
"There were two men there and there was a gunfight and we had to shoot them," Mr Setiyono said.
Indonesian police shoot a suspected terrorist after an attack in the city of Bandung in West Java
FEBRUARY 27, 20174:29PM
INDONESIAN police have shot and captured a suspected terrorist ‘bride’ following a bomb explosion in West Java.
The suspect, who has yet to be identified, let off a pressure cooker bomb in a park in the city of Bandung on Monday afternoon before running and hiding at a nearby government building where he started a fire. It is understood no one was injured in the attack.
West Java Provincial Police Chief, Inspector General Anton Charliyan said the man had since been shot by officers and it was unclear as to whether he was alive.
Police kill 6 suspected fighters in East Java
NEWSINDONESIA
Gun battle ends in deaths of six suspects in village near Surabaya after failed attempt to shoot officers, police say.
Indonesia has suffered a series of attacks in the past 15 years [AFP]
Police in Indonesia say they have killed six suspected members of an armed group after a failed drive-by shooting targeting officers in East Java.
Frans Barung Mangera, East Java Police spokesperson, said that after a police chase on Saturday, the six abandoned their vehicle in a village in the Tuban area, not far from the industrial city of Surabaya, and attempted to flee into a plantation where they were all killed in a second gun battle with police.
"We tried to stop that vehicle, but the vehicle did not stop," Mangera said.
"By around 5pm we had immobilised all of them," he added, confirming that all six had died during the incident.
We couldn't bring ourselves to shoot Sheik Haron.
What are the chances of kicking a few doors in around Lakemba and taking the Indonesian option before asking questions?
And yet it's that style of ruthless enforcement that makes Turnbull's fantasy land of milk, honey and Muslim peace and tolerance work.
Comments
Turnbull's fantasy land comment about Indonesia, democracy and Islam
Malcolm Turnbull misunderstands Indonesia and its relationship with Islam.
That's dangerous because Turnbull seems to believe the unique situation in Indonesia is proof that we'll have no problems getting along with a growing Muslim influence in our polity.
PM Turnbull tells Indonesia's President Widodo that he quotes him all the time about democracy and Islam @SBSNewspic.twitter.com/rViElZwwJu
"You are an absolute beacon in the way that you demonstrate again and again that democracy moderation, tolerance and Islam are thoroughly compatible," Mr Turnbull added.
Oh really? This from the Jakarta Post.
Members of the Nahdlatul Ulama join a mass prayer in Jombang, East Java in a 2015 file photo. (Kompas/Alif Ichwan)
President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo has toned down earlier statements about the separation of religion and politics.
Jokowi, ahead of a recent sectarian rally by conservative Muslim groups against Jakarta Governor Basuki “Ahok” Tjahaja Purnama, had warned the groups not to mix religion with politics.
While reaping criticism from Islamist political parties, his statements did not stop the rally on March 31, in which police detained five protesters, including Muslim People’s Forum (FUI) leader Muhammad Al-Khaththath.
In another move to balance out his firm stance against Muslim radicals participating in sectarian rallies, President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo has toned down earlier statements about the separation of religion and politics.
ENDS
Indonesia's democracy, moderation and toleration occur in spite of traditional Islam, not because of it.
Two principal factors drive Indonesia's relative religious harmony and tolerance - Pancasila and the government's rule with an iron fist.
Pancasila is the dominant political force in Indonesia - much greater (historically and politically) than Islam. And in living up to the Pancasila principles, the country's military has been ruthless in suppressing any hint of insurrection, including Islamic.
For most of the Republic of Indonesia's post-independence life it's been a dictatorship with the ruler kept in power through force.
The country was occupied by the Japanese during World War Two. Its first President, Soekarno united the nation in the aftermath of Japanese occupation and declared independence from the former colonial power the Dutch.
In 1945 Sukarno promulgated Pancasila (or 5 principles/columns) as the philosophical foundation of the Indonesian state
Kebangsaan Indonesia (Indonesian Nationality), an emphasis on nationalism
Internasionalisme (Internationalism), an emphasis on justice and humanity
Musyawarah Mufakat (Deliberative Consensus), an emphasis on Representative democracy which holds no ethnic dominance but an equal vote for each member of the council
Kesejahteraan Sosial (Social Welfare), influenced by the idea of the welfare state, an emphasis on populist Socialism
KeTuhanan yang Maha Esa, an emphasis on monotheism and religiosity
The fifth sila concerning religiosity was promoted to become the first sila, however Muslim wishes for a reference to the Sharia and the use of the word Allah were unsuccessful - Pancasila uses the Indonesian word for god "tuhan".
All Indonesians can quote Pancasila. It outranks any Islamic rulings - and is the reason for the religious harmony Indonesia usually enjoys.
To enforce harmony and stability, Indonesian Police/military ruthlessly quell militant groups, particularly anything that looks like a threat to the government.
Indonesia's police are the polar opposite to latter day Australian "police services".
Last year Indonesian police foiled 14 terror attacks and made more than 150 terror related arrests.
Australians would not cop the policing that's normal in Indonesia - shoot first and ask questions later. Turnbull's commentary about Islam and democracy is fantasy land.
Now to get a sense of the moderation and democracy, here are a few grabs from the press for the four months since 20 December 2016.
Indonesian Police Shoot 3 Terrorist Suspects Dead in a Raid Outside Jakarta
Members of Indonesia’s counterterrorism squad have shot dead three suspected terrorists and arrested one in South Tangerang, on the outskirts of Jakarta.
The three, who were armed with bombs, were killed during a raid in a rented house, Jakarta police chief Mochamad Iriawan told local media on Wednesday morning, shortly after the shootout. Police also found “active bombs” on the scene.
The suspected terrorists in Tangerang were believed to have links with 14 alleged jihadists who have been arrested in the past 10 days, including a female suicide bomber and three female accomplices; they were accused of plotting to bomb the presidential palace. The police named Bahrun Naim, an Indonesian ISIS jihadist in the Middle East, as a mastermind behind the plan to attack the palace, as well as other terrorist plots, including an attack that killed eight in Jakarta in January.
Two other terrorist suspects werearrested in two separate provinces in Sumatra on Wednesday, both of them are believed to have links with Bahrun.
Indonesian police kill two militants in raid on house in Java
Updated
Indonesian police have killed two suspected Islamist militants in a house in West Java, a police spokesman said, marking the latest in a series of raids aimed at preventing planned attacks in the Muslim-majority nation.
Two men had been arrested in Cibinong, in West Java, and led police to a house at the Jatiluhur dam, national police spokesman Awi Setiyono said.
"There were two men there and there was a gunfight and we had to shoot them," Mr Setiyono said.
Indonesian police shoot a suspected terrorist after an attack in the city of Bandung in West Java
FEBRUARY 27, 20174:29PM
INDONESIAN police have shot and captured a suspected terrorist ‘bride’ following a bomb explosion in West Java.
The suspect, who has yet to be identified, let off a pressure cooker bomb in a park in the city of Bandung on Monday afternoon before running and hiding at a nearby government building where he started a fire. It is understood no one was injured in the attack.
West Java Provincial Police Chief, Inspector General Anton Charliyan said the man had since been shot by officers and it was unclear as to whether he was alive.
Police kill 6 suspected fighters in East Java
NEWSINDONESIA
Gun battle ends in deaths of six suspects in village near Surabaya after failed attempt to shoot officers, police say.
Indonesia has suffered a series of attacks in the past 15 years [AFP]
Police in Indonesia say they have killed six suspected members of an armed group after a failed drive-by shooting targeting officers in East Java.
Frans Barung Mangera, East Java Police spokesperson, said that after a police chase on Saturday, the six abandoned their vehicle in a village in the Tuban area, not far from the industrial city of Surabaya, and attempted to flee into a plantation where they were all killed in a second gun battle with police.
"We tried to stop that vehicle, but the vehicle did not stop," Mangera said.
"By around 5pm we had immobilised all of them," he added, confirming that all six had died during the incident.
We couldn't bring ourselves to shoot Sheik Haron.
What are the chances of kicking a few doors in around Lakemba and taking the Indonesian option before asking questions?
And yet it's that style of ruthless enforcement that makes Turnbull's fantasy land of milk, honey and Muslim peace and tolerance work.
![Indonesia has suffered a series of attacks in the past 15 years [AFP]](http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/4/9/e858c5a692f749fc86eb4a6460fd2de3_18.jpg "Police kill suspected fighters in East Java")