Australian Supreme Court Judge says Islam and the Quran are to blame for terrorism
Thursday, 31 January 2019
NSW Supreme Court Judge Desmond Fagan has condemned traditional Islam and much of Quran in the clearest possible terms.
Judge Fagan today sentenced Sameh Bayda to 4 years prison for conspiring to do acts in preparation for a terrorist attack. Bayda's wife Alo-Bridget Namoa was given 3 years 9 months on the same charge.
Judge Fagan's sentencing remarks commence with these Catchwords, used by judges in the superior courts to index the matters considered in arriving at the Judgement:
- co-offenders married under Islamic rites
- offences and other matters relating to terrorism
- where offenders motivated to commit jihadist act for furtherance of Islam by violence
- general deterrence in light of prevalence of terrorist offending for furtherance of Islam by jihad
- whether offenders have resiled from extremist Islamic beliefs
Here are some extracts from Judge Fagan's Judgement. It's lengthy, but tremendously important and I'd highly recommend you put aside the time to read it.
(Islamic Bonnie and Clyde - Namoa and Bayda)
Bayda is from a Muslim family of Lebanese background. Religious teachers at a bookstore and prayer hall taught him militant Islam from about mid-2013, when he was 15.
Namoa was introduced to Islam by two female street preachers in 2012 when she was 14½. In her own words she was an Islamic fanatic from mid-2015.
Islam was the religion and ideology the offenders intended to advance by the acts for which they conspired to make preparations.
What constitutes a terrorist act is defined in s 100.1 of the Criminal Code. Paraphrasing and abbreviating the definition so far as relevant to this case, a terrorist act is as an act:
(1) involving the use of a weapon or weapons which would in the ordinary course of events cause serious physical harm or death to one or more persons AND
(2) intended to advance the cause of Islam by violence
From the early afternoon of 30 December 2015 texts were exchanged between them concerning an act of violence against non-Muslims which was planned by Bayda and encouraged by Namoa. She expected Bayda would be killed in this attack. Bayda’s responses confirmed he was planning an action in which he expected to die for the sake of Allah. The messages of both offenders were liberally punctuated with Islamic religious exclamations such as “Alhamdulillah” (praise to Allah) and “Subhan Allah” (God is perfect).
Namoa said she wanted to perform a jihadist attack in concert with Bayda, or to support him in such an attack, in these words:
I wanna do an Islamic bonnie and Clyde version on the kuffs haha.
The term “kuffar” or “kuffs” was frequently used by both offenders as a contemptuous reference to people who do not follow Islam.
At 10:18 am on 31 December 2015 Namoa was with Bayda and entered on his phone a note of support. She was clearly aware that Bayda planned to act in company. She wrote:
Be happy i wanna know yous are smiling before yous jump outa the car. No matter what the outcome is at least you didn’t pull out, do it for our ummah [Islamic community]. … note to the kuffar, DIE IN YOUR RAGE!! Boom bye bye
During the afternoon and evening of 31 December 2015 Bayda’s messages indicated hesitation. Namoa continued to encourage him, suggesting that he and his associates “make dua” (supplication to Allah) and “Go hard fisbilillah” (in the cause of Allah). She said “Allah will send some kaafirs your way if He wills for them to come your way”.
At 10:26 pm on 31 December 2015 a photograph of Bayda was taken on his phone, showing him in the driver’s seat of his van dressed entirely in black, including a head covering and a scarf over the lower part of his face, tied behind his head. The effect was to leave only his eyes showing. The photograph depicts Bayda making the one fingered salute used extensively in propaganda of the Islamic State (“IS”) to signify the oneness of Allah according to Islam. The photograph was sent to Namoa’s phone.
Illustrated instructions for stabbing a person with lethal effect and for making a bomb were saved onto the offenders’ phones.
Police found in Namoa's possession a Tactical brand knife, being a weapon of approximately 20 cm in overall length. This was in her handbag wrapped in a shahada flag (that is, a black flag bearing the messages in Arabic “There is no God but Allah” and “Muhammad is the prophet of God”). Photographs on Bayda’s phone showed that he had been in possession of the Tactical brand knife at his home in Guildford at some time before 13 January 2016.
I accept Bayda’s evidence that he and his friends were inspired by jihadist propaganda to plan a street attack upon non-Muslims. Some of the material on the offenders’ devices urged Muslims to attack and plunder Western civilians in their own countries in furtherance of their religious duty. An article entitled “Advice to Those Who Cannot Come to Sham” by Abu Sa’eed al-Britani encouraged precisely this kind of crime. Another article by al-Awlaki was entitled “The Ruling on Dispossessing the Disbelievers Wealth in Dar al Harb”, referring to the sphere of war, meaning anywhere not under Islamic control. This cited hadith as follows:
The Messenger of Allah said, “I was sent before the hour with my sword, and my sustenance is under my spear, and humility and belittlement is the destiny of whoever defies my commands”. The best and purest form of income is booty. The Messenger of Allah said: “… and the spoils of war are made halal [lawful] for me …”.
Bayda said that the jihadist propaganda he read online encouraged any sort of violent street crime against non-Muslims.
In the first half of 2013, at the age of 15, Bayda commenced to attend Bukhari House, an Islamic bookstore and prayer meeting room in Auburn. At about the same time he began to listen to lectures and sermons on the Internet which promoted salafist doctrine. In his evidence he described salafists as those who “take the Quran literally and they want to live exactly as Muhammad, the way Muhammad lived”, including violent subjugation of nonMuslims. Bayda said that during a 10 day period over which he slept at Bukhari House in July 2013 he was instructed by two men in their late 20s who “believed in jihad … so they followed like same beliefs as ISIS, al-Qaeda”.
Bayda gave this evidence regarding the teaching he received from these two instructors at Bukhari House:
I looked at them as very knowledgeable in the religion … they were teaching me about this whole new ideology and this whole new way to look at Islam … I started to … view [ISIS and al-Qaeda propaganda] online because this is what I was taught by them boys and this was at the time what I understood to be … the right interpretation of Islam.
He was shown by these two men “verses about jihad in the Quran” and they told him the history of the Prophet and his companions and “spoke about the violent activities that they did”. He said “they spoke about how evil democracy is” and supported what they said by reference to the Quran and other Islamic scriptures. When Bayda subsequently read IS and al-Qaeda propaganda online he found it consistent with what he had been taught at Bukhari House.
Bayda was watching jihadist videos quite extensively in June, July and August 2015. This developed into sharing jihadist ideas with his friends, in person and online, from early December 2015 and then a desire to undertake his own violent action against non-Muslims by the end of that month. One of the associates with whom he was talking about jihad from early December and who went out with him looking for victims on New Year’s Eve was a young man he had met at Bukhari House.
Namoa’s letter to the Court included this (emphasis added):
I got into propaganda first and then learnt the fundamentalist ideology through other Muslims on social media which I then followed being the only thing I’ve seen widespread online which was always labelled as the path of Islam. Following that I learnt the basics of Islam, such as the prayer and ablution in September 2015. I acknowledge that I was a fanatic and that I’ve accessed a substantial amount of Islamic State propaganda, as well as downloading various books and documents onto my phone.
Namoa rejected Australian laws and law enforcement authorities, saying “Allah is my legislator”. She spoke of having no interest in life on earth and desiring only death and paradise.
The material on Bayda’s phone included the following:
(1) Numerous videos of sermons delivered by Islamic scholars identifying in the Quran and in the example of the Prophet’s life a foundation for the belief that Allah has commanded the believers to kill or subjugate all non-Muslims.
(2) Instruction manuals on how to carry out lethal attacks on non-Muslims in Western countries.
(3) Still images and videos of Islamic combatants in the Middle East, either posing heavily armed or carrying out mass executions of bound and helpless prisoners, often by beheading.
(4) Conversations, in the form of exchanged text messages and/or images, between believers in the Islamic duty of jihad.
The message conveyed by the written and video-recorded propaganda on all devices was essentially as follows:
(1) All non-Muslims, being people who do not accept Allah as the one God and Muhammad as his Prophet or Messenger, are the enemies of Allah.
(2) It is a Muslim’s obligatory religious duty to wage jihad against (that is, make war upon) all non-Muslims everywhere, including civilian populations in the West.
(3) The obligation of jihad against non-Muslims is never-ending until Islam has been imposed universally and non-Muslims everywhere have submitted.
The passages from the Quran relied upon call for forcible imposition of Islam as an imperial project. The propaganda urges Muslims in the West to engage in terrorism upon the premise that their loyalty to Islam is higher than any loyalty to the nations in which they live, that they are residing amongst an enemy and that their religious obligation to dominate non-Muslims by force displaces the mutual obligations of citizenship under Western laws.
The countless images of death in the propaganda on the offenders’ devices and the relish with which the video recorded sermons and written articles speak of bloodshed convey a first impression of no more than depravity. However the sermons and writings are serious and scholarly religious teaching. They quote verses of the Quran which unmistakably instruct the believers to undertake jihad in pursuit of universal Islamic dominance. For example in one of Anwar al-Awlaki’s essays in “Inspire” magazine (Trial Exhibit FF) verses are quoted in these terms:
8:39 Fight them until there is no fitnah [disbelief] and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah.
8:60 And prepare for them what you can of strength and steeds of war that you may terrorise with it the enemy of Allah and your enemy.
4:84 So fight, [O Muhammad], in the cause of Allah; you are not held responsible except for yourself. And encourage the believers [to join you] that perhaps Allah will restrain the [military] might of those who disbelieve. …
Al-Awlaki’s essay, which is part of the evidence tendered to the jury, also quotes sayings of the Prophet to similar effect, such as the following (from two collections of Hadith):
The [Prophet] said: “I was instructed to fight mankind until they testify that there is no one worthy of worship except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, they establish Salah [prayer] and they pay Zakah [tax on wealth for alms]. Whoever does so have protected from me his blood and his wealth.
The Crown’s witness, Dr Rodger Shanahan, gave evidence before the jury that in Islam the Quran:
needs to be understood differently to the Bible insofar as the Quran is the literal word of God, so delivered over a period of time specifically to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel. The Prophet Muhammad then recounted or wrote down what he had been told in these revelations, and they are collated in the book we now know as the Quran. …
So when we talk about references in the Quran, that takes on a very important aspect within Islam, because that is essentially what God has told his followers to do.
The following are further examples of Quranic verses cited by contributors to the online propaganda magazines which Bayda had on his electronic devices. I quote them in the terms in which they appear in the evidence:
2:216 Jihad is ordained for you though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.
9:5 And when the Sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them … .
9:29 Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture [Jews and Christians], Until They Pay the Jizyah [poll tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:33 It is he who has sent his Messenger [Muhammad] with guidance and the religion of truth, to make it superior over all religions even though the mushrikun [polytheists, pagans, idolaters, unbelievers] hate it.
9:73 O Prophet fight against the kuffar and the munafiqin [hypocrites] and be harsh upon them. 9:123 Fight those adjacent to you of the kuffar and let them find in you harshness.
An article in one issue of Dabiq, tendered from Bayda’s electronic storage, was entitled “Islam is the Religion of the Sword not of Pacifism”. It contains this argument:
Allah has revealed Islam to be the religion of the sword, and the evidence of this is so profuse that only a zindiq (heretic) would argue otherwise.
The article proceeds to quote from the Quran, including some of the verses set out above, and the following (being part of 47:4):
So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favour afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens.
The jihadist propaganda on Bayda’s laptop and hard drive (particularly the IS and al-Qaeda magazines) also relies upon the Prophet’s example of waging religious war in the 7th Century. The articles invoke the duty of Muslims to follow the Prophet’s example in all things as a central tenet of Islam. Writings of other Islamic scholars, ancient and modern, are quoted to substantiate that the war-making of IS in the Middle East against everyone except Sunni Muslims and the extension of this violence against Western communities are the fulfilment of all Muslims’ religious duty.
Islam as a legal and political system not limited to religion in the spiritual and personal sense:
Islam is supposed to be not just a religion but a total system of life, so for any total system of life you need a legal framework. … Islamic law as we know it, or the Sharia, provides guidance for how you are supposed to live your life in the way in which God willed you to do that. … [W]ithin Islamic law, different weight is given to different sources of Islamic law. Obviously the most weight is given to the Quran because that is the literal word of God, but that doesn’t give complete guidance for how people should live their lives. So in those vast areas that it doesn’t mention, … you take your guidance off what are known as the hadith, and the hadith are the actions or the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad and his companions.
So if Muhammad was chosen out of all people by God to receive the revelations, then it follows that the actions that he undertook and the words that he said should be the next most important source of law within Islam.
The offenders’ culpability for religious fanaticism
There is no suggestion in the evidence or in the arguments put on behalf of the offenders that the commission of this offence was induced in any degree by social or economic marginalisation or by any reaction to police vigilance and enforcement activities with respect to terrorism. The offenders simply adopted a fanatical Islamic hostility toward non-Muslims and toward Australia’s liberal democratic society in accordance with religious instruction they received, both directly and on-line.
Widespread sermonising and scholarship on the Internet, as tendered in this case, shows that those who believe Allah has instructed Muslims to impose their religion upon the world by violence derive this conviction from the Quran, believing it, as Dr Shanahan explained, to record “essentially what God has told his followers to do”. The propagandists whose writings are in evidence in this case and terrorists who respond to their call (like the offenders now before the Court) cannot sensibly be regarded as mere anti-social deviants. It could not be clearer that jihadi propagandists and terrorists are motivated by religion and are able to identify scriptural support for their actions. They consistently invoke belligerent verses of the Quran.
In the belief of the propagandists, shared by Bayda and Namoa at the time of their offence, violence toward non-Muslims is not merely an incidental tactic for attracting attention to the faith or to issues which concern its followers. Relying upon the parts of the Quran which they cite and upon the example set by the Prophet, the ideology espoused in the online jihadi literature embraces neverending war against non-believers as an inherent and central element of belief. This ideology elevates violence to the performance of a religious duty and an act of devotion.
Publicly disseminating in Australia the religious belief that Muslims are under a duty to attack non-believers (as taught by the online propagandists and by Bayda’s Islamic mentors in Sydney in 2013) is an incitement to communal violence. Since the commencement of s 93Z(1)(b) of the Crimes Act it would constitute an offence in this State, not excused by the reference to scripture.
Although Australian citizens are not subject to penalty for their choice of belief by which to relate to God, teaching a divine duty of violence against non Muslims is not within the law’s protection. It goes beyond personal religious experience and counsels criminal breaches of the peace. The whole concept of inclusive tolerance would be destroyed if respect and protection were accorded to beliefs that are themselves violently intolerant and that conflict with secular laws designed to secure diverse freedom of worship for all.
Bayda and Namoa should have understood that their belief in Allah’s instruction to attack everyone who has a different religion from their own and to seek to impose Islam by force would stand condemned by the standards of the civilised world. It should have been apparent to both of them that citing verses of the Quran and recounting deeds of the Prophet from 1400 years ago could not make such a purported divine command acceptable as a religious concept, according to reason and human decency.
Muslims who wish to live in peace with the whole community may reflect that if Islam accepts the entire Quran as Allah’s eternal instruction to believers, without explicit repudiation of verses which ordain intolerance, violence and domination, that unqualified acceptance will embolden terrorists to think they are in common cause with all believers and indeed that they are the spearhead of the religion. The scriptural support for the terrorists’ perceived obligation of jihad cannot be rebutted by Australian courts or law enforcement authorities. If the verses upon which the terrorists rely are not binding commands of Allah, it is Muslims who would have to say so. If Australian followers of the religion, including those who profess deep knowledge, were to make a clear public disavowal of these verses, as not authoritative instructions from Allah, then the terrorists’ moral conviction might be weakened.
The incitements to violence which terrorists quote from the Quran cannot just be ignored by the many believers who desire harmonious coexistence. Those verses are not ignored by terrorists. As seen in this and numerous other prosecutions, the hostile verses are inspiring serious crimes. In turn those crimes have the capacity to provoke social division and mistrust.
The apparent message of these verses is not answered by non-specific and unelaborated suggestions, from various quarters, that “there are other verses” or that “it is an interpretive religion” or that the hostile passages are “cherry picked”. Assurances are from time to time offered to Western communities that “Islam is a religion of peace” and that the faith of Muslims requires them to obey the laws of a country in which they are in a minority. But in the absence of express public disavowal of verses which convey Allah’s command for violence, as quoted in the jihadist literature tendered in this case, such assurances are apparently contradicted. Certainly that is how the matter is seen by jihadi propagandists and those who have followed them, including these offenders.
Bayda has encountered the differences between Australia’s liberal society and the teachings of Islam. Learned instructors in the religion have taught him, from the Quran and from the example of the Prophet as they recount it, that it is a Muslim’s religious duty to resolve the differences with violence.
Bayda said he could not live as a moderate Sunni and gave these answers when challenged as to why not:
A From what I’ve learnt about Islam.
A I’ve read many books about Muhammad, about the religion, I was spending time in the HRMU [High Risk Management Unit] with the rest of the extremists. From what I understand there’s only [-] a [person] who wants to practise as the Quran, as Muhammad taught, there’s only one way and that is to practice jihad and violence, ‘cause that’s what the Quran encourages. ….
Q I’ll ask you this way sir. Do you seriously say to his Honour that you could not see a way to practise Islam and to live in peace with your fellow man, is that what you’re telling his Honour?
Several aspects of the offence for which Bayda and Namoa are to be sentenced contribute to an inherent degree of seriousness. First, all terrorism offences have the propensity to cause generalised insecurity in the community. Secondly, where the ideological cause sought to be advanced is that of Islam, the crime involves an intention to intimidate the Australian public and/or Commonwealth or State governments, with the objective of destabilising the existing constitutional order. A crime of this nature is an attack on the framework of government and law.
Thirdly, any individual terrorism offence by which the ideology of Islam is sought to be advanced is a manifestation of what has become a persistent disruption of peace and security in the two largest cities of this country. Although the many individual Islamic terrorists who have been dealt with by the courts have not all acted in concert with each other, their separate offences have been unified by the perpetrators’ adherence to a single religious ideology which has the object of breaking down democratic government and replacing it with Islamic rule.
Taking into account these cases decided during 2018 and the attack by Hassan Khalif Shire Ali in Bourke Street Melbourne on 9 November 2018, the total over the past 15 years has now reached approximately 13 plots or actual attacks involving some 47 jihadists. More such cases are awaiting determination by the courts. This number of convicted Islamic terrorists whose offences span 15 years, all inspired by the same ideology and with the same objective, constitutes a significant phenomenon. This is to be taken into account in fixing a sentence which provides general deterrence.
Each offender was drawn into commission of this offence by indoctrination in Islamic jihadism. Neither has any other background influence or disposition toward crime. I find both of them genuine in their renunciation of fanatical beliefs. The need for general and specific deterrence is reduced. The realistic objective of facilitating rehabilitation is correspondingly more important in sentencing them. The offenders have expressed remorse and contrition, which I also find genuine. The public interest will best be served by moderation in sentencing.
Both offenders have at least commenced to develop reason and humanity in place of blind, submitting belief. The evidence heard since the jury gave their verdict justifies some confidence that on their return to the community Bayda and Namoa will show respect for the beliefs of others and for the laws of this country which protect the freedom of its citizens to pursue personal spirituality in their own way.
So much for the religion of peace.
His Honour has clearly set out the next steps for Islamic leaders.
It's up to them to repudiate the Quran. They must tell their followers it's wrong in its calls for jihad.
Muhammad wasn't perfect.
Neither is the Quran.
But sometimes out legal system gets it just right.
Congratulations on your scholarship and Judgement today Judge Fagan.
Australia and the free world are in your debt.
Islam and the Quran on tria... by on Scribd
Whoa a judge actually speaking the absolute truth nah that cant be right surely my eyes decieve me.
Posted by: Daemonised | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 08:59 PM
Islam is a supremacist ideology that tolerates no other religious belief system - and like Communism, Nazism and Fascism, its tenets dictate that Islam can never find peace until the entire world is converted to its religious, social and political ideals.
And as an ideology, Islam can never be reformed from within and only from without, which is why Islamic apostates are killed on site to keep them from spreading the bad news about what Islam truly represents and as Judge Fagan has so graphically expressed, is a religious system that is prepared to use violent means with which to get its way.
Islam is not a religion as we in the West know and understand what a religion to be, and that is the key to unwinding what has plainly become a national security concern within all Western countries and other nations, that have been foolish enough to allow Islam to take root.
Islam must be declared a non-religion and a dangerous ideology for which it truly represents.
Posted by: Nemesis | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 09:08 PM
There have been others who have offered their considered opinion about Islam and the danger it poses - Justice Michael Finnane comes to mind when he sentenced the Skaf gang for their part in the rape of many young Aussie girls as a form of jihad.
Posted by: Nemesis | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 09:11 PM
watch the death threats roll in and the bleeding hearts crawl out from under the rocks.Read the bloody quran makes Karl Marx and Adolph a pair of choir boys.The Imans and mosque are an attack point on western values needs to be monitored.
Posted by: Greg | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 09:36 PM
Indeed, well done judge. The summation puts plenty of holes into apologists clims that so called radical islam is not based on the quran. The learned judges study has shown him that all the hate comes from the same source and is quoted basically word for word and that the source is THE RELIGION ITSELF. It is not an abberation of cherry picked mis-interpretations of the quran, it is the quran.
Unfortunately the sect has already prepared for this by admonishing its followers into believing that the quran is the perfect text given by the perfect allah to the perfect man and therefore it is totally and completly correct and can not be changed.
So good luck getting any comment out the any islamic council of Australia.
Oh and of course the court may be blinded by the acts of contrition by the defendants but perhaps they should revist the parts of the quran that allow muslims to even renounce their faith and live like the enemy in order to survive until they are strong enough to then enforce the quran and sharia.
The last laugh though has to be on Namoa who obviously had an incomplete indoctrination into the sect. Where it says that
"She spoke of having no interest in life on earth and desiring only death and paradise"
she missed the bit where the big moo told of how hell is full of women because they are ungrateful during their lives and therefore upon death go straight down... But then allah is described as being the great deceiver - the big moo even rejoiced in this fact - and so there is no guarantee that any mussie is going to paradise.
Oh and one final thing that is only alluded to by the judges summation where he writes:
"The apparent message of these verses is not answered by non-specific and unelaborated suggestions, from various quarters, that “there are other verses” or that “it is an interpretive religion” or that the hostile passages are “cherry picked”."
The existence of other verses that may suggest a different meaning is not what needs to be followed up. The quran is structured so that later verses supplant earlier ones to the extent that the earlier ones can be ignored or taken as totally replaced by a later verse. Its called ABROGATION and comes from the Arabic word naskh which means TO ERASE, TO COMPENSATE. As explained by the big moo himself:
Surah 2:106—“Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?”
So page 10 may say the religion of peace but a later surah on page 38 says kill all non-believers where ever you find them making the later page 38 instruction superceding page 10. The fact that it remains makes it just window dressing to keep the stupid kuffar onside until they are put to the sword.
I'm guessing this will be buried deeper than a certain naieve AWU lawyer scandal.
Posted by: Earl | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 09:40 PM
Cripes. What racist!
Posted by: Doubtful John | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 09:52 PM
...and one other pivotal point.
"...delivered over a period of time specifically to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel."
The supposed "angel" that visited Mu was forceful and threatening and pushed him so hard up against his cave wall while demanding he read the quran that Mu thought he was being taunted by a jinn - tending to be a bad spirit but not inevitably although the lines between jinn and demon are blurred throughout pre and post islamic times.
This is totally opposite to how Angel Gabriel presented to those he visited as recorded in the Bible. Gabriel of the Bible was reverend and assuring telling those he visited that he was not to be feared.
As noted in 1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Posted by: Earl | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 09:56 PM
So you convince everyone you really didn't mean it and ....
Not good enough.
Posted by: Cui Bono | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 10:13 PM
That's a breath of fresh air.
A credible, intelligent Judge, rather than a terrorist-friendly/crim friendly, Labor-appointed "little maaate" one.
Posted by: Up The Workers! | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 10:53 PM
Will Aunty ABC have to use the dreaded words jihad and islam together?
Heaven forbid, they'll all have to go to there safe spaces.
Posted by: wal1957 | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 11:00 PM
A week after the murder of Curtis Cheng by a young Islamic extremist, the ABC reported this on Bukhari House -
"On the spectrum of militancy in the Islamic faith, Bukhari House, in the Sydney suburb of Auburn, is a stand out. In the past it's been a lightning rod for controversial remarks by a roll call of characters who've become notorious. There's the firebrand cleric Sheikh Feiz Mohammed. His teachings were said to have inspired the Sydney riot and he urged children to die for Islam in sermons.
It's both a bookstore, and meeting place. It has a prayer room. It's busier than usual in Ramadan, the just completed month devoted to prayer and fasting for Muslims. According to stricter traditions, men stay at the mosque around the clock in the final 10 days of Ramadan. The ABC has established that Farhad Jabar, and possibly his brother too, did just that.
Beyond establishing deeper faith and commitment than previously known, it raises disturbing new questions about the kind of company the boy was keeping.
Past Bukhari House devotees include radicals who died in Syria and Iraq, like Mohammad Ali Baryalei. He's the one police phone tapped allegedly telling another Bukhari House regular, Omarjan Azari, to video tape the beheading a non-Muslim. Azari's in custody awaiting trial.
Bukhari House and the thinking that goes on inside it now figure into the murder last week of a civilian police worker in Parramatta. The police believe Jabar was used, possibly volunteered even, to carry out a violent act by other people with a higher profile of suspicion."
I don't know why the government still allows Bukhari House to operates, the same as that notorious Hume Islamic Centre with its connection to terrorists.
Posted by: seeker of truth | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 11:02 PM
Only 4 years? Not nearly long enough. They aren't going to change!
It's time we banned all new mosques and Islam itself. If they want to practise thus religion then they should go live in a compatible country.
Posted by: Ruth | Thursday, 31 January 2019 at 11:38 PM
You seem to believe there IS an Angel Gabriel? If the angel Gabriel told you God wanted you to kill your son Isaac, would you obey?
Posted by: Michael (Tangle Delta Alpha) | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 12:55 AM
I think the good Judge will need to have bodyguards and move house because he has made an honest and truthful judgement about the Quran and its followers. How much longer do we have to listen to politicians and left wing idiots sing the praises of Muslims?
Posted by: Rubyred | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 01:18 AM
Those two will need to be under permanent surveillance when they are released. Taquiya allows Muslims to lie when it will further Islam so those signs of remorse should be taken with a grain of salt.
Posted by: Ceres | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 08:02 AM
They would have been better off writing a book and winning the $100,000 Victorian Prize for Literature AND the $25,000 non-fiction prize in the Victorian Premier's Literary Awards.
But since they are most likely Australian citizens they wouldn't have to have an exemption from the prize rule of citizenship or permanent residency. Extra bonus then as they could have been eligible also for the NSW Premier's Awards and the Walkley Foundation's book awards too.
Why would any genuine Australian author even bother with the 'literary awards' when the prize rules are blatantly ignored or varied on a whim as required by virtue signalling of the judges?
Posted by: Gary | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 08:34 AM
‘The Qur’an and it’s Biblical Reflexes’ has been released.
Posted by: Mon | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 08:35 AM
I am sick an tired of this talk in the MSM that Islam is 'just another religion' with a few bad eggs. As Turkish president Erdogan said:
"The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."
Posted by: ando | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 08:48 AM
Hey, welcome back. See that is the big problem with assumptions they have their own direction. I believe (the observational one not the religious one) that I presented just a number of documented instances to highlight a point of difference involving the one same character. The Quranic recollection of interactions between a human and an angel and the Biblical recollection of numerous (numerous) interactions between a number (number) of humans and the same angel.
I guess it is possible for even an Angel to be in a bad mood sometimes and his dealings with the big moo certainly seem (seem) to suggest that.
But then on reflection it seems bad moods are at the core of islam.
Oh, and one final combined observational AND religious point it actually wasn't the angel Gabriel that told Abraham to kill his son it was God (him/her/they/them/cis/whatever) that gave him the message. Seems it was the "Angel of the Lord"(Gabriel???) who interceded and said "no mate the bar b que is off for today".
Michael (TDA) you used capitals for Gabriel and God - there is hope for you yet, wink wink lol.
Posted by: Earl | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 10:01 AM
There is speculation in the budgie-cage liners this morning that the 'powers-that-be', may be looking to strip horse-trainer Darren Weir of the 2015 Melbourne Cup his horse won when ridden by Michelle Payne. Weir has been accused of having cheated by allegedly using a "jigger" to deliver electric shocks to horses while in training, in order to 'spur them on'.
If this is so, and on being found guilty (IF he is found guilty) he is retrospectively stripped of the Melbourne Cup, then will Dodgy Dan, his 40 Thieves and the one third of the Victorian Parliamentary A.L.P. Cabinet who are currently under active Criminal Investigation by the 'Victorian Major Fraud and Extortion Squad', all be thrown into prison and the 2014 Victorian State election result be similarly reversed to favour the Coalition?
If not, then why not?
Are State and Federal elections not as important as horse races?
What Darren Weir allegedly did (and there is so far no evidence to suggest that the result of the 2015 Melbourne Cup is directly attributable to this illicit practice) was to supposedly cheat at a mere sporting contest. Serious - but certainly no hanging offence.
What Dodgy Dan, his 40 Thieves and the assorted vile crooks of the A.L.P. (whether dressed by Dodgy in "Red Shirts" or "White Shirts") did in allegedly cheating at the State election, goes to the very heart of governance in this country. The A.L.P. itself should be declared a proscribed organisation in this Parliamentary democracy, and all those involved in perverting the election result should be jailed for very long sentences, if found guilty.
Given that the matter was corruptly allowed to drag itself out beyond the date of the 2018 State election - won by the same bunch of alleged cheats and fraudsters, the result of that State election must be on very shaky grounds, also.
Dodgy's selectively blind, deaf, dumb and catatonic 'Farce Command' are keen to divert attention by pointing the finger of blame in Darren Weir's direction ("Oh...look over there!") but are apparently as utterly blind as usual when the vile stench of rancid criminal corruption emanates from their own rotten bosses down the Spring Street Sewer.
Posted by: Up The Workers! | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 10:38 AM
I was thinking exactly the same thing, myself.
Does Victoria still have an Auditor-General, or is he/she just some A.L.P.-appointed obese bobble-head doll like A.L.P.-appointed Police Chiefs apparently are these days?
I assume that these $125,000 worth of awards are not being paid for, out of the Premier's own pocket, through the goodness of his own heart.
If there are hard and fast rules for the granting of these taxpayer-funded awards, and those rules are being flagrantly broken, then surely somebody MUST go to jail for corruptly embezzling that taxpayer cash - or the Premier's own salary should be docked to pay for his illicit generosity with OUR cash.
If Australians are no longer fit and proper recipients by race for these awards in the eyes of anti-Australian A.L.P. racists, then what politically correct nationality do they need to be, in order to qualify in the future?
If the State Auditor General is unable or unwilling to carry out the responsibilities of his/her position, then why are we being slugged the vast sum of THAT individuals' salary, lurks, perks, schemes and scams?
Is this yet another case where the honest and competent State Ombudsman, Deborah Glass, needs to be involved because those snoring A.L.P.-appointed Public Serpents whom we pay to oversee this area, are too timid, too incapable, too incompetent or just too unwilling to do so?
Posted by: Up The Workers! | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 10:55 AM
If the Angel Josef Dzugashvili told you Vladimir Ulyanov wanted you to kill 6 million Kulaks, would you obey?
Posted by: Steve J | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 10:56 AM
It isn't easy to determine which verses in the Koran were written first.
Its chapters are organised from largest to smallest not in order of writing.
The nastier stuff is usually later and coincides with Mohammeds exit from Mecca and Warlord activities in Medina.
A modern Psychiatrist might say that Mohammed started with delusional schizophrenia and ended with a God complex.
An example of power corrupting...but I don't want to be accused of cynicism so I wont say that.
The problem with Islam is that it can not be reformed.
For a believer the Koran represents the literal word of God.
It would require another prophet channelling the Almighty to change it but Mohammed was the last (and final) prophet. He said so!!
He was the perfect man. All the violence he perpetrated is supported by the Koran.Why wouldn't it, be he dictated it.
Posted by: Steve J | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 11:11 AM
Good point about who issued the order to kill Isaac and who stopped it. Sounds like God is like Trump in the White House issuing crazy instructions and the angel of the Lord is one of the "adults in the room" trying to limit the damage or, depending on your point of view, the angel is part of the deep state.
Posted by: Michael (Tangle Delta Alpha) | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 11:40 AM
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war ... Christ the Royal Master leads against the foe.
Posted by: Michael (Tangle Delta Alpha) | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 11:43 AM
When can I start voting for him.
Posted by: James | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 12:53 PM
Totally agree it is really the perfect Catch 22 as instead of one step forward two steps back it actually goes in a circle and those non-muslims that want to believe its "just a religion of peace" get giddy very quickly and get off the ride leaving those that try and show the dangers as racists. (not a race its a supposed religion)
The only hope is to try and support those true moderates within the sect that argue the difference between the islamic state (global caliphat that the radicals push) and the state of islam which is the more internalised voluntary be one with islam. A bit like new age religions which ironically would be the first to go if the islamic state gets in.
The alternative front on battle is to challenge who the big moo was and get the arab influence out of it. There are references that the big moo was actually white. Looking at the basic savagery and quick to anger temperament of the Irish and the fact that Irish symbols show up in arabic designs and the Irish/Arabic dialects mean each can converse to a reasonable extent in their own language I wonder if the big moo was (funnily enough given Michael Tango Delta Alpha example of Abraham) perhaps the child of a kidnapped Irish slave girl and her Arab owner? Arab slave traders have a long history of plundering the British Isles with the 1631 sacking of the Irish coastal town of Baltimore when the whole town was kidnapped.
Food for thought or apologies to end the week on a conspiracy theory we will never know. Cheers.
Posted by: Earl | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 01:02 PM
Not sure what comparison you're trying make. One is the words of a hymn written in the 1800s whilst the other is words from the mouth of a modern day tyrant at a time when horrendous atrocities are being committed in the name of his god allah.
What world leaders do you know of calling for expansion and violence in the name of Jesus?
How many incidents of someone driving over women & children in a truck singing Onward Christian Soldiers do you know of? Anyone shouting 'Jesus is great' whilst throwing gays of buildings? How about 'blessed be the virgin Mary' whilst slaughtering cartoonists for drawing a picture of Jesus?
Posted by: ando | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 01:04 PM
I'm of the school that you learn from the past you do not try to bring its relevance into the present. The conditions, the beliefs, the rules of law 2000+ years ago that come to us based on a writers recollection/mindset at the time/influences are their own capsul and if we had full access to the stuff that the Vatican has then we might be able to further your approach and show that the God of Abrahams day is the same deity of the pagans or whatever other tribe lived years before and developed a religious belief. There is a claim that a lot of Judaism has itself been pinched from pagan and other religions just as Islam more recently has.
PS sorry a bit scrambled above so to clarify bringing the past into the present gives us the type of example of that 20something English politician who recently claimed Winstone Churchill was a mass murderer.
Posted by: Earl | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 01:12 PM
gutless policy of appeasement by our government parasites simply feeds their sense of low self esteem & jealousy of other's success which explains why they are such a perfect for our marxist alp
Posted by: maurie | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 01:33 PM
One. Four years is not a valid penalty. In four years, nothing will have changed in these people. nN fact, prison may well encourage them further.
Two. These two are pawns. The Bookshop is a nest of Vipers, allowed to exist, without penalty or restriction. How bloody stupid is that?
Three. No problem to these people. Already they are being elected to the Australian Parliament, with exactly the same views as the pair in the article. The only difference is that they are going to do us over legally.
Posted by: Cynic of Ayr | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 02:35 PM
Which part of Islam is a race snowflake? I can choose to become a Muslim tomorrow if I felt like it and leave the next day,but most likely be killed for leaving the organisation in the third day.
In my past life, something similiar happened when I signed up to have to follow a midget with a peculiar mustach.
Posted by: Snowmelter | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 04:20 PM
Did you get them snagged in the gate?
Posted by: Up The Workers! | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 04:55 PM
Who, Charlie Chaplin?
Posted by: Old Digger | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 05:22 PM
In Channel 10's "60 Minutes Hate Session" tonight, they are reporting that James Merlino, a known associate of Dodgy Dan, his 40 Thieves and his 6 Cabinet Ministers who are currently under active Criminal Investigation by the Victoria Police "Major Fraud and Extortion Squad", has stood down a Wyndham Vale school Principal, who was recently videoed dragging an unruly pupil across the playground.
This Merlino, in true A.L.P. style, is Minister for Education in a Party too dumb to spell its' own name correctly. His Party routinely supports the perpetrators of crime and denies legal aid to the victims of crime, and is once again trying to extend its message of "crime DOES pay" and its warped, crim-friendly beliefs into the school-yard.
I bet that the School Principal, if asked to do so, could correctly spell the word: L.A.B.O.U.R. - even Jeremy Corbyn - notoriously bereft of one single iota of I.Q. - can manage that.
School Parents have so far got over 2,000 signatures on a petition supporting the Principal and NOT supporting the comically illiterate totalitarian associate of the Spring Street Disorganised Crime Gang.
Posted by: Up The Workers! | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 06:04 PM
Even shoes and logo's are a cause to complain and find fear in because the logo looks like Arabic writing...
So much peace they want to control everything a bit like the marxist ideology it is all about control over everything ... it is a political movement not spiritual.. so much ego and fear input..
A Nike customer has launched a petition, with over 21,000 signatures so far, to get Nike Air Max 270 sneakers off the shelves because the script on the logo resembles the word “Allah” in Arabic.
“It is outrageous and appalling of Nike to allow the name of God on a shoe … which will surely be trampled kicked and become soiled with mud or even filth,” Nike customer Saiqa Noreen wrote on the petition.
Nike said in a statement, reported by Bloomberg, the logo was a stylised representation of the Air Max trademark, and not an intentional representation of the word Allah.
Posted by: Michelle Two | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 06:37 PM
No, of course not. Why do you ask?
Posted by: Michael (Tangle Delta Alpha) | Friday, 01 February 2019 at 10:34 PM
Many people surrender their conscience to the dictates of a "higher" authority.
If you are going to try and tar Christianity with the obedience demanded by Islam you shouldn't stop there.
Who said "the death of one person is a tragedy,the death of millions is a statistic".
Just thought you might have an affinity with some of the views of that person as did/do many others who subscribe to the motto "whatever it takes".
Posted by: Steve J | Saturday, 02 February 2019 at 06:42 AM
I have no doubt that what you write truly reflects on the recent Victorian election outcome - voter fraud is not being adequately addressed in this country by anyone, even the electoral office.
The ALP/Union cabal, does not send some of its 'operatives' to American Federal and state elections just to 'assist' in their election process - they are there to learn how the Democrats have been getting away with massive, and I do mean MASSIVE, voter fraud for decades, and how to apply that 'knowledge' to our own federal and state elections.
But, a ray of hope! All that Democrat voter fraud has now been put into evidence with which to bring down the Democrat Party - and that will have a flow on effect with our own system.
Posted by: Nemesis | Saturday, 02 February 2019 at 07:43 AM
The word 'labor' is actually from the Latin. You seem to have a fixation with the word as being incorrectly spelled when it was the English who took to 'doctoring' the word to reflect their own way of doing things.
A question to you if I may: Why do you see the need to insert the letter 'U' a vowel, that is meant to be pronounced, into a word whose spelling has already been established as 'labor' and that by pronunciation, remains silent?
Why have it in place at all?
Posted by: Nemesis | Saturday, 02 February 2019 at 08:08 AM
"A modern Psychiatrist might say that Mohammed started with delusional schizophrenia and ended with a God complex." - Steve J
I agree. Just like the self-appointed apostle Paul: "God ... was pleased to reveal His Son in me .." Gal 1:15-16. And Paul seems to have been "caught up to the third heaven ... caught up into Paradise", but he wasn't sure "Whether it was in the body or out of it" 2 Galatians 12:2-4.
I ask you: Did Mohammed ever travel to heaven? What more do you need to know about whether God prefers Paul to Mohammed?
Posted by: Michael (Tangle Delta Alpha) | Saturday, 02 February 2019 at 11:56 AM
Did Mohammed ever travel to heaven?
Of course he did.
Flew there on a white stallion.
Posted by: Steve J | Saturday, 02 February 2019 at 06:22 PM
As I understand it, the student whom the principle was dragging had physically attacked a pregnant female teacher. But who cares about her? She's only a breeder.
Posted by: PM | Monday, 04 February 2019 at 05:08 PM
The ABC's BC' Milligan, you won't be surprised to know, has retweeted the awful Rev Rod Bower to the effect that Christians and Jews are just as bad - indeed worse.
We all recoil in horror, don't we, from the atrocities of the Holy Name Society, the Children of Mary and the Anglican Mothers' Union in central Melbourne.
Posted by: PM | Monday, 04 February 2019 at 08:38 PM
Any place the word "Allah" is read one should replace it with "The god". The Arabic word "allah" is not a name. It is a contraction of the Arabic words "al" (the), and "ilah" (god). It is used to reference the god Hubal to whom Mohammad was a dedicated follower.
The god Hubal is associated with the moon and is the chief god of a pantheon of around 360 gods and goddesses.
Posted by: DRLJR | Tuesday, 07 January 2020 at 05:18 AM
Islamophobia? Such light sentences - Bayda 4years & his girlfriend Namoa 3years 9months. Namoa's sentence expired on Jan 2019(Namoa) & Bayda will be free to walk out on 24 Jan 2020 - if they haven't already got paroled & released earlier.
The judgement -
"For conspiring to do acts in preparation for or planning a terrorist act:
"Sameh Bayda is sentenced to imprisonment for 4 years commencing on 25 January 2016 and expiring on 24 January 2020 with a non-parole period of 3 years expiring on 24 January 2019."
"Alo-Bridget Namoa is sentenced to imprisonment for 3 years and 9 months commencing on 23 March 2016 and expiring on 22 December 2019 with a non-parole period of 2 years and 10 months expiring on 22 Jan 2019."
Their sentences were backdated to 2016 (probably when they were arrested). Namoa is a Tongan-Australian Christian who converted to islam. They were married under Islamic sharia law so probably not on the Aust/NSW marriage register(Births,Deaths,Marriages).
How many other Bayda-Namoas are out there? How can Western democracy survive with a religious ideology that doesn't recognise the rule of law as their rule of law is the koran. Despite the fact they have Australia citizenship - What does Australian citizenship mean to these people? Free Centrelink & living off hardworking taxpayers for life?
Our elected politicians better get real.
Posted by: GJohns | Tuesday, 07 January 2020 at 11:27 AM
Because you to believe in God.
It's just that your God is your Ego; a consciousness limited by a small idea of self.
That in turn is defined by your fears.
You seek safety in the mob or in terms you would prefer "the dictatorship of the Proletariat".
I couldn't see you actually taking the food off starving peasants to achieve the latest 5 year plan but I could definitely seeing you giving the orders... you know for the greater good and eventual nirvana promised by the system.
On the subject of Sacrifice.
It's not a bad idea when times are tough(and they mostly were) to put aside something for the future ie to sacrifice present benefit for future gain.
If you have just killed an elephant and can't eat it yourself it may be a good idea to share it with some people who in return might help you in the future.
This can be developed further but it's going to far to kill your own son(or anyone else for that matter).
If you need some authority to get the other goat herders to accept this, a story about Gods intervention certainly helps.
The Old Testament is a prescription for the basic principles that should govern peoples lives at the times it was written.
It's a good idea to sacrifice but that has its limits; something Stalin should have considered.
That's all the story about Abraham and Isaac is about.
No one will prove to you that you are wrong about the God you worship but you are definitely looking in the wrong place by attacking the Bible on a literal basis.
Posted by: Steve J | Tuesday, 07 January 2020 at 12:47 PM