Vic Premier Dan Andrews says PM Morrison is providing "the sort of national leadership we need"
Republican Sinn Fein on Soleimani "May his faithful soul be at the right hand of God"

Under NSW Threatened Species Conservation Act removal of dead wood & debris is a "key threat" to wildlife - apparently fire isn't????

Thanks to DC for the tip on this - key extracts:

7. Removal of dead old trees (either standing or on the ground) results in the loss of important habitat such as hollows and decaying wood (Gibbons & Lindenmayer 2002) for a wide variety of vertebrates, invertebrates and microbial species and may adversely affect the following threatened species:


11. In view of the above the Scientific Committee is of the opinion that Removal of dead wood and dead trees adversely affects two or more threatened species, populations or ecological communities or could cause species or populations that are not threatened to become threatened.

The entire policy is here.

Screen Shot 2020-01-05 at 5.15.26 pm

NSW Scientific Committee - final determination

The Scientific Committee has found that:

1. The accelerated and ongoing removal of standing dead trees and woody debris on the ground caused by human activity has been recognised as a factor contributing to loss of biological diversity (ANZECC 2001). Examples of the process include illegal or poorly regulated firewood collection from forests and woodlands and unsustainable loss of fallen woody debris, which may be stacked, burnt, mulched or otherwise removed from the site.

2. The removal of deadwood, either standing or fallen, can cause the broadscale change of woodlands into paddocks with isolated standing trees, with little natural understorey and no woody debris on the ground (Landsberg 2000). This may be done to remove obstacles to machinery, increase grazing access and productivity, reduce rabbit harbour and for aesthetic reasons. Local councils and other agencies also "tidy up" by removing dead wood and dead trees from their reserves and from along roadsides.

3. Fire wood collection generally involves removal of relatively undecayed fallen logs, but the repeated loss of this material from woodland sites will over the long term, reduce or eliminate the availability of old fallen logs as habitat. Removal of standing dead wood reduces the availability of hollows over time and the input of material to the litter layer. This process is exacerbated by the failure of regeneration of these plant communities and the resulting reduction in natural accumulation of dead wood.

In New South Wales, firewood includes mainly fallen timber but also comprises standing dead timber with Eucalyptus species including Boxes, Ironbarks and Stringybarks forming the bulk of the wood burned (CSIRO 2000, Wall 2000). Across Australia, over 80% of wood collected for firewood comes from private property.

4. The forests and woodlands of the Western Slopes and Tablelands are the ecological communities most threatened by dead wood removal because they contain popular firewood species. This region of NSW has been extensively cleared for agriculture and remnant patches of woodland are severely impacted by dead wood removal (Wall & Reid 1993). Removal of dead wood may also affect other forest communities, including wet sclerophyll forests and rainforests, particularly in small and easily accessible remnants.

5. In Australia about 290 vertebrate species use tree hollows (Smith & Lindenmayer 1988, Lindenmayer et al. 1991, Gibbons & Lindenmayer 1997), many on an obligate basis. Within NSW about 120 vertebrate species use tree hollows and most can utilise dead trees as nest sites (Gibbons & Lindenmayer 2002). In eucalypts the formation of hollows suitable for wildlife is very slow, taking between 120 and 200 years (Mackowski 1984, Stoneman et al. 1997). A number of studies have shown that the proportion of trees bearing hollows in eucalypt forests managed for wood production in NSW has substantially declined (Andrews et al. 1994, Kavanagh & Stanton 1998, Gibbons 1999, Gibbons & Lindenmayer 2002,). Recent studies of forests and woodlands of the western slopes of NSW have found that the number of trees large enough to contain hollows has declined dramatically and the proportion of standing dead trees has also been reduced (Paull 2001, P. Gibbons, pers comm.)

All public land areas managed for wood production in NSW have specific prescriptions and regulations that are intended to protect both standing dead trees and woody debris on the ground. Specifically, these regulations take the form of licences issued by the National Parks and Wildlife Service under the auspices of the Threatened Species Conservation Act 1995 or the National Parks and Wildlife Service Act 1974.

Dead standing trees in paddocks, resulting from clearing efforts or dieback, form a critical resource for threatened and non-threatened fauna (Law et al. 2000). The useful habitat life of these trees is limited by natural factors (decay, windthrow), purposeful destruction by further clearing, and use for firewood (Wall & Reid 1993). There are indications from current studies in NSW (P. Gibbons, pers. comm.) that the decline in the number and quality of dead standing trees is ongoing.

The presence of standing dead trees and woody debris is an important component of the structure of forest and woodland and helps determine the habitat value for a wide range of fauna (Knight & Fox 2000, MacNally et al. 2001).

6. Fallen dead wood provides important habitat for a suite of invertebrate species dependent on decaying wood for their survival. These species play an important role in recycling nutrients in forest and woodland ecosystems. They include a range of species that feed, breed, or shelter in dead wood or may be predators, or parasitoids dependent on species that live on dead wood. Fallen wood, which includes the bark, sapwood and heartwood, comes in a variety of shapes and sizes, permitting habitat specialisation with some species utilising only parts of the fallen wood, or even decaying logs with a particular exposure to sun. Microbial organisms and fungi are also important in the breakdown of timber (Araya 1993) and recycling of nutrients back into the soil. Invertebrates can also feed on, or in wood-decomposing fungi (Grove 2002).

7. Removal of dead old trees (either standing or on the ground) results in the loss of important habitat such as hollows and decaying wood (Gibbons & Lindenmayer 2002) for a wide variety of vertebrates, invertebrates and microbial species and may adversely affect the following threatened species:

Endangered Species   Preferred Habitat Type
Hoplocephalus bungaroides Broad-headed Snake Standing
Neophema chrysogaster Orange-bellied Parrot Standing
Polytelis anthopeplus monarchoides Regent Parrot (eastern subspecies) Standing
Anomalopus mackayi Five-clawed Worm-skink On-ground
Nurus atlas (a beetle) On-ground
Nurus brevis (a beetle) On-ground
Meridolum corneovirens (a land snail) On-ground
Vulnerable Species    
Hoplocephalus bitorquatus Pale-headed Snake Standing
Hoplocephalus stephensii Stephens' Banded Snake Standing
Varanus rosenbergi Rosenberg's Goanna Standing
Cacatua leadbeateri Pink Cockatoo Standing
Calyptorhynchus magnificus Red-tailed Black-cockatoo Standing
Calyptorhynchus lathami Glossy Black-cockatoo Standing
Neophema pulchella Turquoise Parrot Standing
Neophema splendida Scarlet-chested Parrot Standing
Ninox connivens Barking Owl Standing
Polytelis swainsonii Superb Parrot Standing
Tyto novaehollandiae Masked Owl Standing
Chalinolobus nigrogriseus Hoary Wattled Bat Standing
Dasyurus maculatus Spotted-tailed Quoll Standing and on-ground
Falsistrellus tasmaniensis Eastern False Pipistrelle Standing
Mormopterus norfolkensis Eastern Freetail-bat Standing
Petaurus norfolcensis Squirrel Glider Standing
Phascogale tapoatafa Brush-tailed Phascogale Standing
Litoria subglandulosa Glandular Frog On-ground
Pseudophryne australis Red-crowned Toadlet On-ground
Climacteris picumnus victoriae Brown Treecreeper (eastern subspecies) Standing and on-ground

8. Removal of dead wood and dead trees and resultant loss of hollows has been identified as a threat that could cause species or populations that are not threatened to become threatened. Examples of species or populations of those species include:

Ground dwelling mammals such as:

Antechinus flavipes Yellow-footed Antechinus
Antechinus stuartii Brown Antechinus
Antechinus subtropicus Subtropical Antechinus
Rattus fuscipes Bush Rat
Sminthopsis murina Common Dunnart
Trichosurus vulpecula Common Brushtail Possum

Other hollow-dependent species include many of the parrot species (Garnett & Crowley 2000), ground-dwelling mammals (Dickman 1991), possums and gliders (Smith & Lindenmayer 1988) and the forest-dwelling insectivorous bats (Tidemann & Flavel 1987).

9. Removal of dead wood and dead trees may threaten insects which depend on dead wood and forest litter including Isoptera (termites, Whitford et al. 1992), some species of ants (Andrew et al. 2000), Collembola, Diplura (Heterojapyginae), Blattodea (cockroaches), Dermaptera (earwigs), Gryllacrididae (wood crickets), Diptera (Mycetophilidae, Tipulidae, Asilidae, Stratiomyidae, Dolichopodidae and Myididae), Hemiptera (Aradidae and Lygaeidae), and Lepidoptera (Cossidae and Lycaenidae). Coleoptera (beetles) are particularly vulnerable with many families having representatives that live in rotten wood, including Cerambycidae, Elateridae, Tenebrionidae, Passalidae, Scarabaeidae, Lucanidae, Buprestidae and Curculionidae. Many Carabidae, including endangered species Nurus brevis and Nurus atlas, eat saproxylic prey. Amongst non-insect invertebrates, the main group that is affected is the Onychophora (velvet worms), with many endemic species in temperate forests (Scott & Rowell 1991).

10. Removal of dead wood and dead trees may seriously affect the long term availability and viability of habitat. Loss of fallen dead wood from open forests and woodlands will increase impacts of wind on the soil microclimate. Loss of surface moisture resulting from the removal of dead wood will affect soil organisms below fallen logs as well as changing the above ground plant cover and will impact on associated invertebrates (Tongway & Ludwig 1996, Tongway et al. 1989)

11. In view of the above the Scientific Committee is of the opinion that Removal of dead wood and dead trees adversely affects two or more threatened species, populations or ecological communities or could cause species or populations that are not threatened to become threatened.


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Note to greenies. All these endangered species are probably dead now anyway. Good job.


They managed survive in before colonial time exactly because the places were burnt out often so could go to earlier burnt out spot for safety and food while their area on fire.

Australia is "land of drought and flooding rains" And fires.

seeker of truth

Members of the Scientific Committee are shown on this webpage.

Surely this dead wood, trees etc don't need to be piled up in excess of 1 metre high. The more serious the drought the more the height of the piles increases. Now so much of it is ash so the variety of vertebrates, invertebrates and microbial species and threatened species are goners. Great protection NOT!


I would imagine the endangered ones on that list are now extinct, if enough of the vulnerable ones survived they would now be endangered, and the not of concern ones will now be endangered. All because sensible, careful management of forests is no longer allowed.

Mark (SA)

How is it working out for them at the moment? Not scientists - bl00dy "public service" bureaucrats.


Unfortunately, commonsense is not common any more.

Michelle Two

Here is the Forests NSW webpage on the Firewood Collection laws and rules.. I was trying to find where they said they put in camera's as well..

Surveillance Camera's were installed in 2013 in the forests that are up in flames now.. Somehow I don't think they survived.. oh! dear!!

1. Collecting firewood in parks for use off-park is prohibited.

2. Collecting timber for firewood is allowed in backcountry (more remote) areas, in any park category, except where it is:

prohibited by a park plan of management
prohibited by a sign or notice
for commercial gain
for use outside the park boundary.

3–7. Exemptions

3. Upon the reservation of new lands, where collection was being undertaken at the time of reservation and is not for commercial gain, a limited phasing-out period may apply (upon request).

4. In parks other than nature reserves, NPWS may allow firewood collection:

Policy adopted 24 May 2017

In NSW around 120 species of animals and birds use hollows in trees for nesting or shelter, with many invertebrate species dependent on fallen woody debris for survival. These insects, snails and worms, as well as fungi and bacteria, play an important role in the decomposition of wood and nutrient cycling in forest and woodland ecosystems. As the removal of woody debris, dead wood and dead trees has a significant negative impact on habitat availability and ecosystem functioning, it was listed as a Key Threatening Process under the Threatened Species Conservation Act 1995 in 2003.

However, in some cases removal of wood is necessary to achieve park management objectives, such as reducing fuel load (and hence fire risk).

Bringing wood into a park for camp fires or barbecues needs to be strictly controlled, as it can introduce new pests and pathogens into a park.
Surveillance cameras keep watch in State forests
27 May 2013 - Sarah Chester -

Up to 150 surveillance cameras installed in State forests near Tumbarumba, Eden, Batemans Bay, Nowra and Braidwood are keeping an eye on everything from wild dog movements to illegal firewood collection.

Forestry Corporation of NSW (formerly Forests NSW) Southern Region Planning manager, Kevin Petty, said the remote cameras were providing the corporation with very useful information on a wide range of forest management issues.

He said the corporation trialled a small number of surveillance cameras for a couple of years before recently installing around 150 permanently in pine plantations and native forests in the region.

Mr Petty said one of the big advantages of the cameras was being able to use them instead of sand-pad monitoring to identify animal movements, especially wild dogs.

Forestry Corporation Tumbarumba-based Feral Animal Control officer, Mark Goldspink, said the cameras had certainly made his work easier.

"Setting up and checking sand pads is very time consuming because they need to be checked daily, whereas a remote camera can identify individual dogs and the number of dogs and only needs to be checked when time permits," he said.

Sand-pad monitoring is part of the corporation’s integrated pest animal management program in the region, which also includes baiting, trapping, and guard animals to keep on top of the wild dog problem.

Mr Petty said as well as monitoring wild dog movements and other feral pests, the cameras were used to survey critically endangered and endangered species such as the smoky mouse and the southern brown bandicoot under Species Management Plans within Southern Region.

He said the remote sensing cameras were also being used more and more for pre-harvesting surveys of threatened fauna species.

"Amendments to the Threatened Species Licence means various survey methods including the hair-tube surveys, which takes considerable time in placing traps and analysing of hair by an expert, have been replaced by cameras," he said.

Mr Petty said the surveillance cameras were dual purpose and were now being used extensively to identify illegal use of the forests as well as monitoring animals.

"Illegal hunters, firewood collectors, rubbish dumpers, as well as unregistered vehicles and motorbikes, have been caught on camera and their details handed to the NSW Police and Game Council," he said.


Interesting submission re the 2003 fires.
The more things change the more they stat the same.
We never heed the lessons learned from history when it comes to National Parks and bushfires.


Remove the deadwood from Canberra.

You will find it piled high in parliment house, disguised as politicians.


The greens are now EXTINCT.

Fascinated Observer

Given the destruction chances are lots of greenies are now homeless too.

Wonder how carbon neutral they are going to be rebuilding?

Perhaps after this reality check the advice & experience of real rural folk will put their latte swilling city chattering classes into the “unfriendly” class on all their social media?

Fascinated Observer

Commonsense DOES NOT EXIST!

What does exist is the practical application of acquired knowledge.

Every one is an individual & acquires individual knowledge through the course of ones life.

Many learn similar life lessons, sometimes painfully, through similar mistakes but they are learnt individually.

Extremely harsh bushfire lessons are currently being taught to millions.

Many unfortunately are getting the lessons directly while more have the luxury of studying by media coverage & offering what little support they can.

As the comments here show each has their own interpretation of this disaster & its contributing factors.

One can only hope that once some rain starts the natural extinguisher/regeneration cycle emotions can settle to allow objective interpretation of the various factors to ultimately reduce the severity of future events on all effected parties.


It's a shame Mr Petty's surveillance cameras now can't show him all those dead animals......that would be very useful information of the results of your mis-management of your State Forest Mr Petty!!!

Mr Petty and his ilk and their continued left wing ideology are the reason why this whole travesty has happened.........they have wiped out what they sort to protect, now the whole movement need to be held to account!!

Tony Johnson

Donald wanted to “drain the swamp” but with our drought, “clearing the deadwood” sounds a better option.
This “deadwood” should also include many of the numerous bureaucrats as well.


Aborigines and their fine might have cause loss of megafauna but "Green"Think will cause loss of rest of fauna


That committee now the "dead wood"?

Dennis Thompson

Firstly blame United Nations Agenda 30 (was Agenda 21) - Sustainability.

Check out the substantial impact this is having on our lives and economy, natural resources locked up and now deaths and destruction from environmental stupidity.

Socialism masquerading as environmentalism (PM Abbott).

Dennis Thompson

Green forests now the black forests.


2 Phillip

Yep afraid so !

In that "Rabbit-Warren" in Canberra, where unless the dishonesty continues.. there, there are going to be a lot of "Red Faces" *(apart from a rare few examples) who over a very long period of time have tried hard (in vein) to pursue the application of Commonsense.

Question ! : Does Group-Think & "Party Rules".. over-rule Common-Sense ?

& When does all this (so-called) "Climate-Change" hoax & excuse & The UN :
United Nations "Paris" mentality & the idiotic 25% Renewable,s Scam, with the massive Subsidies end ?.

& .. When does The (absurd) Murray Darling Authority & Privatized Water Sales to The Greed-Filled Opportunist,s ( I, wonder who "They" just may be ?)... cease to exist... with effective exposure & Water is properly returned to the rightful owners (ie) The State Public Essential Services, control (even if they have to buy it back !) & along with ever escalating Electricity costs being returned to be returned to reduced & far more sensible & sustainable levels ?.... (& much else).

"The Worlds Most Expensive Electricity in Australia" !

(all created by The Unnecessary "sell-off,s" of The Grid,s Assets to greed-filled & opportunist duopoly run.., Privateers, who may also succeed to finally bugger it all up. (& all created by ,you guessed it,, "Party & a rather apathetic Public & of course broke & incompetent & miss run "Politicians".) "The Chickens are Coming home to Roost"

"We" now have finally with the (largely) neglected & "The Forgotten People" & deserted Drought-Stricken & Desperate (& formally food-producing ) Farmers
coming into the mix,.. who deserve a much needed & far better treatment & further re-think by many mean-spirited "People" & a far better look-into by sloppy & ""Blame-Game" ..."Politicians" these are now the vital issues out there We even may be faced with expensive Food Shortages in Australia, & when do a lot Politicians come to their senses & finally listen to the vast &
& in many instances .. the long suffering.. Public !

.. WHEN ?

Up The Workers!

Thinking out aloud...

It is commonly acknowledged that the cause of the current tragic loss-of-life and property in this summer's bushfires, is directly attributable to the scientifically illiterate religious dolts of greenieism.

The criminal neglect of back-burning; letting massive fire-loads build up; declaring far more land than is safe to do so, as National Parks and then preventing the clearance of those Parks by regulated cattle-grazing or 'cool-burning'; blocking off fire-access trails - all these "progressive" measures by inner-City Leftard latte-sippers have contributed to the massive loss of property and life.

If the Federal Government were to declare that Parliamentary Members of the village-idiot Greens and their dull-wattage acolytes in the A.L.P. were criminally responsible - at least to the same extent as arsonists are - for these fires, and have them all charged with a crime carrying a sentence of one years' imprisonment, they would all then be ineligible to sit in Parliament under section 44(i)(ii) of the Commonwealth Constitution Act (1901) and we, like President Trump, could "clear the swamp" of their lethally stupid religion and set about repairing the damage these idiots have done.

Is it likely to happen?

Absolutely not, but then who would have thought that Trump and Brexit would have happened either.

Either we sit back and allow pathologically-mad religious cranks of the Brown Movement to repeatedly pox our nation, together with their more overtly criminal Union/Leftard thuggish parishioners and pupils from the A.L.P., or we take action to repair the damage they have done.

Oh for a Prime Minister with more testicular fortitude than recent ones have shown.

We need a Trump of our own.


Not all as I see the Free Dictionary says Deadwood includes - "One or more people or things considered as burdensome, superfluous, or serving no useful purpose: Management fired all the deadwood in the department as a cost-saving measure." - Now where could we start!!!

C of Adelaide

Thank you Matt, for posting this. Fascinating and heart breaking to read this submission. Nothing has changed since 2003 and look at the current catastrophe we are witnessing. We reap what we sow.
I hope & pray that once the smoke has cleared, the local and state authorities get their s__t together to make permanent and sensible changes to legislation governing management & access of our National Parks and State Forests.


And Abbott was so correct tes battered from pillar to post by Lord Wentworth's media compliant mates, how much better off we would be now if Abbott was allowed to clean the socialist controlled garbage up , but Malcolm under orders by his UN mates and Goldman Sachs wanted Abbott gone.

To many softies got sucked in by Lord Wentworth and the compliant media , one of the biggest tragedies in Australian politics.

Michelle Two

The pines that are burning around my district are to build homes and supply Australia with local goods .. so many souls now out of work because of bureaucrats and educated idiots...

Governments are very good at protecting their assets they leave it up to the volunteers to protect .... as they laid off forestry workers and have been doing it for years, I seen it in my own town all the blokes they have laid off, the sawmill also closed last year and a multinational company took over..

A lot of the management positions went to the Bateman's Bay area, the depot where they fixed the machinery was the last thing to shut down here last Christmas .. That shed burnt to the ground I think it was sold privately so not sure who owned it..

The local council brought the old Cannery (Mountain Maid) site and were doing some development so I suppose the fire just saved them demolition costs and cleaning up the old buildings they only need to clean up the ashes now.. they had just put some new transportable cabins down there as well at the caravan park ..
More than seven million pine seedlings are being dispatched from Forestry Corporation of NSW’s Blowering Nursery near Tumut this winter, which is one of the largest crops since the nursery began producing containerised seedlings a little over a decade ago.

Phil Green, Plantation Improvement Manager, said the 7.4 million seedlings will be sent out to restock timber plantations near Tumut, Bombala, Bathurst and Walcha.

“Over the last 20 years, Forestry Corporation’s Blowering nursery has seen over 140 million seedlings pass through our gates to help build people’s homes and workplaces,” Mr Green said.

“We have 16 staff on board to help with the grading and dispatch program which runs for five months.

“At the height of the dispatch program, it is not uncommon to send upwards of 800,000 seedlings out of the nursery gate in a week.

Mr Green said preparations for the massive seedling dispatch began in October last year, when the team at the nursery planted more than 340 kilograms of seed into individual cells.

“These seedlings are going to become future generations’ homes and furniture, so we go to great lengths to ensure we produce high quality, robust seedlings that will produce strong and straight timber when they are ready for harvest in 30 years,” Mr Green said.

“We use different seeds for seedlings destined to be planted in different parts of the estate so that the seedlings have the best chance of thriving in their environment and growing into high-quality timber.

“Over the past eight months, we have carefully fertilised, watered and nurtured our seedlings, regularly measuring the stem diameter, height and nutrient status of seedlings in sample plots throughout the nursery and we are now assessing each individual seedling to ensure it meets our high standards.

“Forestry Corporation replants the equivalent of almost 300 times the area of Sydney’s CBD to pine plantations each year and around 85 per cent of the seedlings replanted state-wide are grown here at Blowering, so it’s a role we take very seriously,” Mr Green concludes.

Julie of Geelong

Tell that to the poor people of VIC & NSW who have lost everything as a result of these disastrous fires!!!!!

Please spare me this Greens crap!!!

Julie of Geelong

The vitriol against our Prime Minister has been disgraceful!!

It should directed towards these Green morons!!!

seeker of truth

It seems Mr Kevin Petty had a little business on the side called Petty Enviro Services.

Possibly he has now left Forestry Corporation and now works for it as a consultant. It seems many former public servants end up being consultants to the same department they worked in.


The fires have put 350 million tonnes of CO2 into our atmosphere.

How's the vilification of CO2 working out?

Michelle Two

Why is the answer always a Royal Commission they never take action after these occur it just costs a lot of money and mates in the Law Industry get big payoff's for the bleeding obvious... duh!
Review the laws of the UN and step back from them..
When they have Royal Commissions they only add more bureaucrats to the already over inflated government so nothing will ever get solved if you are using the same methods of the old energy...
To find the solutions you have to acknowledge the problem and face the truth first and not sidestep your personal responsibility that it is Australia that should come first and not the ideology fed to all politicians through the UN and the psychopaths in that organisation you should be listening to.. all Royal Commissions into this will take into account the activist control freaks view and they will continue down the same path..
Just thinking this bushfire will stimulate the building industry with many houses that need to be rebuild it will take years as the tradies are few and far between in rural area's and are over extending themselves now without the mass need for housing after such a disaster.. (I just keep feeling this was done by intention from the elite) as they have lost control and need to raise funds immediately..

Wait until the smoke settles and give yourself time to think, the most important effort you need to focus on now is the rebuilding.. then the talking can begin.. don't go to the same consultants that got you in this mess to start with as you need souls with new ideas to fix up what you messed up in the first place, time for us to go back to the basics and to listen to your own conscience before making any decisions..
Recovery and clean up the most important aspect for souls now that are hurting in so many communities.. support the communities not the bureaucrats with more talking.. "NO MORE LAWS" .. less laws give us freedom to do our jobs as governed by spirit and universal laws of helping each other ... love and light xx
Scott Morrison will consider establishing a bushfire royal commission once the disastrous summer season is over as he is forced to stare down critics over his handling of the crisis.

The Prime Minister used a one-hour press conference to declare that now was not the time for blame and fend off a backlash over his performance, which has been labelled ad hoc and lacking in urgency by his political opponents and some defence analysts.

He praised the response from the country’s firefighters, emergency services and defence force as “world-leading”.

Michelle Two

Sorry forgot the not....

Governments are NOT very good at protecting their assets, they rely on volunteers..


Greens website, 14 December 2019: "let us kill off the furphy of clearing trees to protect homes. Trees around your home make very little difference to fire risk . . . " (via Wayback Machine)

Greens website, 6 January 2020: "The Australian Greens support hazard reduction burns and backburning . . . "

Michelle Two

The barmaid I work with daily used to work at the nursery above and she was telling me how they collect the seeds one day.. so it is manual labour and she done this when she was younger so maybe 30 or more years ago.. my uncles planted a lot of trees that would have been harvested not sure how long it takes them to grow to the right size as they are marked to chop down when they reach a certain height and width of the trunk.. Some of the bush was also hardwood that they harvest they logging is always going on.. the roads are maintained because of the logging..

Billy Bognoggle

My Brother in Rosedale reckons laws are meant to be broken, he kept his property clear and only lost his workshop down the back but the house is safe. Both overgrown properties either side of him burnt to the ground.

My Niece and Her Husband lost their smash repair business in Cranbrook Rd Batemans Bay and only because it backed onto debris filled bush.

Up The Workers!

You can thank Bob Brown, Richard The III, Adam Bandt, Sarah Halfwit-Bung and their dull-wattage acolytes from the A.L.P. (Arse-Lickers' Party) for every one of those 350 Million tons of Carbon Dioxide.

Their motto is: "Do as I say; not as I do!"

seeker of truth

Can you remember whether pastures existed on the sites where the pine plantations are now established? When we took a back road to go cross country from Tumburumba to make our way to the highway, we came across beef producing properties abutting them, with the cattle grazing on the side of the dirt roads. The sight of the cattle grazing made our day as we very slowly moved through them. They knew what to do. We then came across a very old operational single story pub with a verandah all round in the middle of nowhere. True Aussie scenery.

Once the seedlings are planted, there would be very little to do on those plantations, maybe just drive or bike around every now and again to check out things. I would imagine that the plantations themselves don't need a big workforce. It would be labour intensive in the seedling nursery and when the felling takes place.


Australian Greens Party= Guilty - on all fronts.

(They are in hiding)

Michelle Two

It used to be all pine plantation when I was growing up they have cleared a lot of it between the road you are talking about, and on the hill that is opposite where I live we literally seen all the logging and trees being removed, but they replant usually after so many years...

It is done on a rotation or used to be as they have to clear the land and let the soils recover and then they replant so it is forever growing..
It would be an interesting area to study but the practices of the past have changed along with the environmental laws over the years...
They have been stopping the sawmilling in many places in all states, and sourcing timber from overseas even though we were abundant in timber because of past practices that are now extinct with the social engineering programs of the NWO.. that has put a stop to us producing anything.. the big picture is so clear to me over what they have done to us with this agenda...

Michelle Two

Where you are talking about would be Yaven Creek, Kunama and Rosewood if you went the back way past Batlow... so there has always been farmland in among the pines as long as I have lived here because most of my class mates lived from these area's and came into town on a school bus.. that same farmland has been in the same families since the early settlers of the town came in.. the pines have been a part of our history of the town and most of the older generation worked for the forestry not sure what it was called and if it was always government controlled.. or if it was sold off like everything else when they started the environmental crap.. as it would have taken a long time for the undergrowth to build up to such an extent as it has.. we have seen the blackberries take over since they put the foresters off and they stopped maintaining the bush for the logging process..

Fascinated Observer

The GANGRENES can see the writing on the review documents already that their actions over so many years at multiple levels of Government have directly created the tinderbox that after a long drought exploded as expected by so many who are now homeless.

Retribution in due course is coming so they now trying to change their narrative to deflect attention from the longstanding policies they have promoted.

Ain’t going to work.

Fascinated Observer

paybacks going to be a bitch at the ballot bix👅

clive hoskin

Unfortunately,the lessons from the LAST BUSH FIRES has not been learned.Lets hope that they take heed and give these green meanies and the local councils who would rather listen to the UN than WE the PEOPLE the flick.

clive hoskin

Yes.Let's see what OUR Politicians do.Inaction from them will mean that WE the PEOPLE will need to take matters into our own hands.We have had far too many investigations into past fires,so we don't need any more.Actions speak louder than words.

clive hoskin

That's right Michelle Two.NO MORE royal commissions.We have had enough.WE want ACTION,NOT WORDS...


Not only The Greens changing their story. The ABC is similarly re-writing history:

ABC deletes story about climate protesters halting protection burns prior to devastating bushfires


Greens are demanding:

"We are in a climate emergency and we again call on the government to act immediately by:

Phasing out coal, oil and methane gas to ensure pollution reduction targets are consistent with science.

Supporting the rapid transition to a renewable energy economy that will produce tens of thousands of new jobs

Commit to convening an emergency summit and investing significantly to ensure we have all the available resources for the current emergency.

Calling a Royal Commission to address all elements of these fires, from land management and national disaster responses to climate change and mitigation".


I trust any Royal Commission will examine "Land management" including:


Dead wood and dead trees does provide protection for wild life and dead trees do not add to bushfire danger as they are dead and do not produce leaves or bark its the living trees and grown cover that supply the fuel when they dry out or drop leaves and bark and then the fire start to travel through the canopy .
Dead trees standing are only a danger if near a road and where to fall on to the road or you are stupid enough to be under if they fall over.
Kangaroo Island Plantation Timbers has had two fires and it a Plantation there would be no dead trees and would think they would have been clearing the under growth.


Thats what you get for listening to "Drips under pressure"!AKA Experts?


Both fire and removal of Woody debris are threatening processes. There's no argument.

Fine fuels (anything smaller than 6mm diameter, so grass, leaves, bark) are the issue. not heavy fuels, like fallen logs. Haven't any of you ever had bonfires, that you can stand next to for hours, singeing the tips of trees only 10m away but without starting a bushfire?

Fine fuels are what is targeted in fuel reduction burning, not fallen branches and logs, and clearing fine OR heavy fuels km away from houses has literally been researched to not be as impactful as clearing fine fuels away within 40m-10m of houses.

Dry grass and bark build up is what spreads and heats fires, and causes ember attack, not logs. An open grassland will burn far quicker and further than a woodland or forest, especially if there are no trees to buffer the wind. I would

months and years of drought and low rainfall make low moisture content in everything, and fire agencies can't do control burns outside of regulated safe windows of time (Greens don't control RFS/CFA). Drought = less safe time.
Humans are also living more and more within vegetated areas which makes reduction of fuel harder to do and residents complain to high heaven about smoke from fuel reduction.

Government (and i mean the party in power, not greens) knows all this and has reports and documents published on their various ministry sites that say this.

This is science, and the greens aren't in power and have no power (everyone seems to think they do?).

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